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	<title>Comments on: Liturgy for forgiving</title>
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	<link>http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/</link>
	<description>renewing liturgy, building community</description>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/#comment-31</guid>
		<description>An interesting story about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.episcopalcafe.com/daily/personal_reflections/the_urgency_of_forgiveness.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;forgiveness in  Sudan&lt;/a&gt; went up recently on the Daily Episcopalian:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Forgiveness in this place is not some intellectual exercise; it’s reality. It’s a daily need. Mother Martha wasn’t discussing some esoteric theological point; she was directly telling the people in her care to work at something some of them don’t want to even consider.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting story about <a href="http://www.episcopalcafe.com/daily/personal_reflections/the_urgency_of_forgiveness.php" rel="nofollow">forgiveness in  Sudan</a> went up recently on the Daily Episcopalian:</p>
<blockquote><p>Forgiveness in this place is not some intellectual exercise; it’s reality. It’s a daily need. Mother Martha wasn’t discussing some esoteric theological point; she was directly telling the people in her care to work at something some of them don’t want to even consider.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/#comment-23</guid>
		<description>Tim, one of the reasons I started thinking about this is that I&#039;ve been trying to work with our two-and-a-half year old on appropriate ways to handle and express anger and frustration.  Right now, at least with me, his anger will often find physical expression--hitting, scratching, hair pulling.  I have found myself sometimes surprised by the intensity of my own response to this, and wanting to find more instructive ways of modeling anger as well as apology and forgiveness.

Just very recently, he reached a point where his anger sometimes got much bigger, and more out of his control, in a way that I think scares him a little.  At more or less at the same time, he started understand a little better when he has hurt someone, and to say &quot;I&#039;m sorry&quot; when that happens.

It&#039;s a situation where I need to be very clear that hurting others is &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; an ok way to express anger.  But forgiveness is very much needed.  So far, I&#039;ve been thanking him for his apology, asking if we can be friends again, and showing that forgiveness in hugs and sharing some playtime or a story. But I share you desire that there was maybe some better way to do this. 

Perhaps &quot;I forgive you&quot; seems stiff because we use it too little? That&#039;s what got me thinking that perhaps we could use more practice. That doesn&#039;t have to happen in liturgy, but perhaps it could.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, one of the reasons I started thinking about this is that I&#8217;ve been trying to work with our two-and-a-half year old on appropriate ways to handle and express anger and frustration.  Right now, at least with me, his anger will often find physical expression&#8211;hitting, scratching, hair pulling.  I have found myself sometimes surprised by the intensity of my own response to this, and wanting to find more instructive ways of modeling anger as well as apology and forgiveness.</p>
<p>Just very recently, he reached a point where his anger sometimes got much bigger, and more out of his control, in a way that I think scares him a little.  At more or less at the same time, he started understand a little better when he has hurt someone, and to say &#8220;I&#8217;m sorry&#8221; when that happens.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a situation where I need to be very clear that hurting others is <em>not</em> an ok way to express anger.  But forgiveness is very much needed.  So far, I&#8217;ve been thanking him for his apology, asking if we can be friends again, and showing that forgiveness in hugs and sharing some playtime or a story. But I share you desire that there was maybe some better way to do this. </p>
<p>Perhaps &#8220;I forgive you&#8221; seems stiff because we use it too little? That&#8217;s what got me thinking that perhaps we could use more practice. That doesn&#8217;t have to happen in liturgy, but perhaps it could.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Fleck</title>
		<link>http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Fleck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/#comment-22</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve long wished for a &quot;ritual&quot; for forgiveness in everyday life.  When someone says &quot;Thank you,&quot; we say &quot;You&#039;re welcome,&quot; which is a simple secular rite for this transaction.  

But when someone tells me he or she is sorry, I find myself stammering a bit.  &quot;I forgive you&quot; is awfully stiff, and seems to give all the power in the exchange to the forgiver.  I often end up with something like, &quot;That&#039;s all right,&quot; but that minimizes the real offense for which the person is apologizing, and thus trivializes the apology.  

I would love to find a formula as simple and rich as &quot;you&#039;re welcome&quot; that conveys, &quot;yes, you hurt me.   I thank you for having acknowledged that hurt, and for having taken the first step toward repairing our relationship.  I forgive you and invite you to forgive yourself.  Now let&#039;s move forward together in love, both of us having learned something in the process.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve long wished for a &#8220;ritual&#8221; for forgiveness in everyday life.  When someone says &#8220;Thank you,&#8221; we say &#8220;You&#8217;re welcome,&#8221; which is a simple secular rite for this transaction.  </p>
<p>But when someone tells me he or she is sorry, I find myself stammering a bit.  &#8220;I forgive you&#8221; is awfully stiff, and seems to give all the power in the exchange to the forgiver.  I often end up with something like, &#8220;That&#8217;s all right,&#8221; but that minimizes the real offense for which the person is apologizing, and thus trivializes the apology.  </p>
<p>I would love to find a formula as simple and rich as &#8220;you&#8217;re welcome&#8221; that conveys, &#8220;yes, you hurt me.   I thank you for having acknowledged that hurt, and for having taken the first step toward repairing our relationship.  I forgive you and invite you to forgive yourself.  Now let&#8217;s move forward together in love, both of us having learned something in the process.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela Smith</title>
		<link>http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 23:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Bruce, Phil and Miranda, thank you for finding these wonderful resources!

Here is the Prayer of Ephraim the Syrian, referred to in Schmemann&#039;s article -

O Lord and Master of my life
take from me the spirit of sloth
faint-heartedness, lust of power
and idle talk.

But give rather the spirit of chastity,
humility, patience, and love to thy servant.

Yea, O Lord and King
grant me to see my own errors
and not to judge my brother;
for Thou art blessed unto the ages of ages.

Amen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce, Phil and Miranda, thank you for finding these wonderful resources!</p>
<p>Here is the Prayer of Ephraim the Syrian, referred to in Schmemann&#8217;s article -</p>
<p>O Lord and Master of my life<br />
take from me the spirit of sloth<br />
faint-heartedness, lust of power<br />
and idle talk.</p>
<p>But give rather the spirit of chastity,<br />
humility, patience, and love to thy servant.</p>
<p>Yea, O Lord and King<br />
grant me to see my own errors<br />
and not to judge my brother;<br />
for Thou art blessed unto the ages of ages.</p>
<p>Amen.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 03:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/#comment-19</guid>
		<description>Following up on the Vespers of Forgiveness, these are held on the evening of &quot;Forgiveness Sunday&quot; (also known as &quot;Cheese Fare&quot;), and they are the first service of the Orthodox Great Lent.  Most of the vespers are oriented towards asking for forgiveness, but at the very end, there&#039;s a forgiveness ritual, wherein each member of the congregation both forgives and asks for forgiveness from everyone else.  

A few links:
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.saintjonah.org/rub/forgivenessvespers.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A  text for the vespers&lt;/a&gt;, although the forgiveness ritual only has a passing mention at the very bottom of the page &lt;/li&gt; 

&lt;li&gt;A nice piece about Forgiveness Sunday, by orthodox liturgy scholar &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.schmemann.org/byhim/forgivenesssunday.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Alexander Schmemann.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;

&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.frederica.com/writings/forgiveness-vespers2.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A nice personal account &lt;/a&gt; of the forgiveness ritual, which was apparently on NPR about 10 years ago.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Following up on the Vespers of Forgiveness, these are held on the evening of &#8220;Forgiveness Sunday&#8221; (also known as &#8220;Cheese Fare&#8221;), and they are the first service of the Orthodox Great Lent.  Most of the vespers are oriented towards asking for forgiveness, but at the very end, there&#8217;s a forgiveness ritual, wherein each member of the congregation both forgives and asks for forgiveness from everyone else.  </p>
<p>A few links:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.saintjonah.org/rub/forgivenessvespers.htm" rel="nofollow">A  text for the vespers</a>, although the forgiveness ritual only has a passing mention at the very bottom of the page </li>
<li>A nice piece about Forgiveness Sunday, by orthodox liturgy scholar <a href="http://www.schmemann.org/byhim/forgivenesssunday.html" rel="nofollow">Alexander Schmemann.</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.frederica.com/writings/forgiveness-vespers2.html" rel="nofollow">A nice personal account </a> of the forgiveness ritual, which was apparently on NPR about 10 years ago.</li>
</ul>
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		<title>By: Miranda</title>
		<link>http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Miranda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 19:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/#comment-17</guid>
		<description>Apparently on Erev Yom Kippur (Yom Kippur Eve), it&#039;s customary to visit people and seek forgiveness &quot;whom one may have somehow wronged or spoken ill of in the past year.&quot;  - quoted from:
http://www.ou.org/chagim/yomkippur/ykcustoms.htm
That&#039;s not liturgical exactly, but it&#039;s understood as part of the observance of Yom Kippur....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently on Erev Yom Kippur (Yom Kippur Eve), it&#8217;s customary to visit people and seek forgiveness &#8220;whom one may have somehow wronged or spoken ill of in the past year.&#8221;  &#8211; quoted from:<br />
<a href="http://www.ou.org/chagim/yomkippur/ykcustoms.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ou.org/chagim/yomkippur/ykcustoms.htm</a><br />
That&#8217;s not liturgical exactly, but it&#8217;s understood as part of the observance of Yom Kippur&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 01:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks, Bruce, that looks like a promising suggestion.  I&#039;ll post some links when I find out a little more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Bruce, that looks like a promising suggestion.  I&#8217;ll post some links when I find out a little more.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce A. Wilson</title>
		<link>http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce A. Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doingpublicwork.org/2008/03/03/liturgy-for-forgiving/#comment-15</guid>
		<description>What about the Eastern Orthodox Vespers of Forgiveness?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the Eastern Orthodox Vespers of Forgiveness?</p>
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